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Offline Rocker66

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Compulsory HI-VIZ
« on: December 28, 2011, 10:08:12 PM »
Both Ireland & France are considering making HI-Viz clothing compulsory for motorcyclist. Whilst I wear this much of the time I would hate to see it made compulsory.
The other problem is that if these countries do make it compulsory then UK insurers could hold motorcyclist who are involved in accidents whilst not wearing it to be partially responsible for their own injuries
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Offline maxincuk

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Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 07:14:02 AM »
I can see the benefits but forcing this through law is wrong. Is like asking all cars to be painted yellow as this might as well prevent accidents by helping bikers spot them more easily. I do wear my Hi-Vis all the time and I feel more vulnerable without it, but I do not agree with this approach.

Far better is to educate bikers and drivers with facts about these things rather than forcing the rules on them.

Offline Rocker66

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 07:30:06 AM »
*Originally Posted by maxincuk [+]
I can see the benefits but forcing this through law is wrong. Is like asking all cars to be painted yellow as this might as well prevent accidents by helping bikers spot them more easily. I do wear my Hi-Vis all the time and I feel more vulnerable without it, but I do not agree with this approach.

Far better is to educate bikers and drivers with facts about these things rather than forcing the rules on them.

 I agree it seems that the UK government always wants to make laws that puts the onus on the motorcyclist to protect his/her self from the motorist rather than to make the motorist give the rider more consideration. You are correct when you say education is the answer. Part of my daily commute is on the M20 and living where you do you will know the problems caused by the traffic from the channel tunnel & ports on the M20 & M2. I always wear a HI-VIZ jacket on this trip plus I recently bought a HI-VIZ Caeberg helmet for the commute
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Audere est Facere

Offline maxincuk

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 07:41:48 AM »
Funny thing is that I've been rammed at the traffic lights by the car sitting behind me while wearing the Hi-Vis. I got the classic SMIDSY :027:

I still believe that Hi-Vis do make a difference, even if a small one. On the road I could use all the help I can get and if a Hi-Vis gives me an extra 5% margin of safety, I'll happily take it.

Offline Rocker66

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 07:59:14 AM »
4 wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul
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Offline xrunjoe

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 12:31:46 PM »
Always a good debate on this one - I am probaby middle of the road - I wear a full hi viz touring jacket in poor riding conditions and do feel safer in it. Have to admit though that for summer riding I switch to black and red outfit. I have heard some arguments that yellow does not stand out in bright sunlight and that black is better.Not sure about that :084:

I am certain that the Hi Viz gear causes some people to take a second look cos I look a lot like a copper coming up behind them. I also know that when I am filtering it seems to get a better reaction = probably for same reason. So on balance - anything that might just help avoid trouble has got to be worth it.Seing yellow seems to make some people look twice and maybe think twice - can't see a down side to it - but would prefer the choice to remain mine and for legislation to be focused more on use of mobile phones etc etc. (6 month automatic ban should be minimum in my opinion)(all phones should have imobilsers fitted so won't work while car engine runing). Then (for example) silly women won't run into me on their school run with car full of kids whilst on mobile driving one handed looking backwards.

What I don't understand is the much used saying "if they don't see my headlight then they won't see a hi viz kacket - so I won't wear one!" What about reflective hi viz from the rear on dark nights, what about right angle view at converging junction when headlight cannot be seen but Hi viz might just make u stand out. Think about it guys!

But as I say - I would prefer the choice of gear to remain mine.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 12:34:04 PM by xrunjoe »
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Offline maxincuk

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2011, 01:21:11 PM »
My philosophy is that I don't believe that we as humans would consciously crash ... not even the bully drivers. I think is the self preservation instinct that makes sure we react to avoid one at all costs.

I think the only reason for crashed is the human brain failing to react to information. I do believe that humans can look, see but fail to process information because their subconscious is busy with other stuff like day dreaming, telephone conversation, hot babe washing car on driveway etc.

The less we focus on what's around us, the more we rely on our (often untrained) subconscious to recognise patterns, judge speed etc. and react for us.

As far as driving is concerned, I think it ultimately boils down to certain visual patterns triggering reactions in our brain subconsciously. This becomes obvious when we find ourselves commenting stuff like "all of the sudden", "out of nowhere" etc. This is we were consciously unaware but the subconscious recognised a pattern and reacted for us.

The Hi-Vis plays the role of enhancing contrast. It highlights the existence of an object where otherwise it could have easily be lost in the scenery. From a brains perspective processing a blurry peripheral image, a moving bright yellow/green spot against a black splash is easier to detect than a grey spot against that same black splash so chances of triggering some sort of reaction are higher.

I don't think is about colour as it is about contrast. The higher the contrast the better and the hi-vis yellow/green does not occur on fences, buildings, trees and other objects, so it creates a very good contrast so is easier to detect.

Overall, I genuinely think they work and help untrained or busy drivers react better and this is why I've chosen to wear it everyday, except on the track.

Offline Rocker66

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2011, 01:26:46 PM »
I agree about the mobile phone bit and would like to see smoking and driving added to it. On my commute I see drivers doing all sorts of strange things. I even had one drive stray into my lane whilst using his laptop which was on the passenger seat. However all the laws in the world are a waste of time if there are no police around to enforce them. It seems that this government wants to save  money on things like policing education and health so that they can spend it on usefull things like bombing other countries and white elephants like the Olympic stadium.
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Audere est Facere

Offline Rocker66

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2011, 01:32:02 PM »
*Originally Posted by maxincuk [+]
My philosophy is that I don't believe that we as humans would consciously crash ... not even the bully drivers. I think is the self preservation instinct that makes sure we react to avoid one at all costs.

I'm not so sure I think that with modern cars providing so much protection some drivers don't care about those on bikes (powered or not) and pedestrians. These are the sort of morons that would take the idiot Clarkson seriously when he suggested that if motorcyclist or cyclist get in your way then just knock them off
4 wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul
Audere est Facere

danesman

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Re: Compulsory HI-VIZ
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2011, 02:03:04 PM »
I have to agree with Rocker66 in that the attitude of the driver plays a big part in our safety.
As a road racing cyclist ( untill a couple of years ago ) I have lost count of the number of occaisions when drivers intentionall drove at me coming head on or overtook so close so as knock me with their wing mirror. This does not include the times when approaching junctions and the like when drivers tried to force me into the gutter. Riding in France, Spain and Italy is another world it seems that car drivers genuinely look out for you.
My point is that I feel considerably safer on my motorbike being able to ride defensivley in a more agressive manner ( er, hope that makes sense ). I generally wear a Hi-vis vest at night or dark days, I feel happier do this but I know guys that have rode as couriers in London who say that it makes no difference at all. I truly believe it is all down to the drivers. I drive a 4wd pickup truck and people still fail to see me in that !

 


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